Magical Techniques as Alternative Psychology

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Travis on November 19, 2008 at 6:20pm

There are elements of you you are describing within the New Hermetics program:

http://www.newhermetics.com/

the book is also available here:

http://www.amazon.com/New-Hermetics-Century-Magick-Illumination/dp/...

and the creator/author of the program, Jason Augusts Newcomb, is also a member of The Great Network.

You will find elements of what you're discussing and much, much more. Recommended.

In LVX,
Travis

Permalink Reply by Vanese Va Voom on November 19, 2008 at 7:25pm

As far as I understand it this is the way Lon approaches things..lets see if he will weigh in : )
p.s. I am fascinated by Jason and his program.
I will contact him ASAP

Permalink Reply by George Urbaniak on November 26, 2008 at 12:56am

I gave a lecture approximately 25 or so years ago, to a class interested in but not very informed in the practice of Ceremonial Magic. The lecture was titled "Ceremonial Magic -- Invoking Angels, Evoking Demons." In it I summarized, in layman's terms, the practice of magick, in general, and the Magic of Abramelin the Mage in particular. One of the speculations I advanced was that the system actually presented a viable system of self-psychotherapy. One spends six months, or so, in preparation to use the system (which would prompt most people to do a lot of introspection); after which one petitions for an audience with one's Guardian Angel (clearly a representation of the higher self, or superego in Freudian terms); then, with guidance from the Guardian Angel, one evokes the Princes of Darkness (evidently the negative aspects of one's personality) and commands them and their minions to do his bidding, to produce positive results (which is the goal of psychoanalysis, in the end result). This is all possible because the Grand Architect of the Universe, the Ancient of Days, or simply, the highest form of God, has set things up in such a way that human's are second only to the highest form of God in the Universe, and may command all entities who exist, including all Archangels, Arch demons, and their hierarchies of angels and demons. It appears to me that angels are the positive aspects of the personality and demons are the negative. The higher up the hierarchy one goes, the greater or more affecting that personality trait happens to be. This system of magic enables one to apply the most positive "Higher Self" to control and manipulate all the negative aspects of personality.

I believe this is hinted at in some of Israel Regardie's work, but I haven't seen my speculation actually so delineated in any work.

I have had a great deal of experience with Ceremonial/Ritual Magick, both in traditional modes and self created modes. I create ritual, and, for the most part, I use the more traditional delineations of "performance." I also experiment, and I might add, with very satisfactory results. My feeling is that once one understands the principles back of ritual -- the reason why certain things are done the way they are -- one can manipulate these principles to create a custom ritual for one's special purposes. Ritual is the manipulation of forces that exist in the Universe and how one applies those forces is highly variable. It is tricky for the "beginner" to do these things, probably even dangerous, in the same way that it is dangerous for someone who does not understand an electrical system to manipulate house wiring. Once the principles are learned and understood, it is no more dangerous than electrical wiring in the hands of a master electrician.

As far as the modern aspect of Ceremonial/Ritual Magick, I had alluded to the fact that ritual is the manipulation of forces. That is so. These forces are ones that are currently being described by Physicists who expound Field Theory, Quantum Mechanics, String Theory, and so on. It would be impractical to go into the relationship of modern day Physics to Ceremonial/Ritual Magick, many books could be written on the subject. I do, however, recommend that all people interested in Ceremonial/Ritual Magick also explore the ideas presented in Quantum Mechanics, Probability Theory, String Theory, M Theory, and the latest, the Physics of Consciousness!

Ave, Hail and Farewell

George

Permalink Reply by BillVee on November 26, 2008 at 5:58am

Hi George,

First of all, thanks for the reply! If I'm reading your reply correctly, I think you're saying that yes, magick can be considered a form of self-psychotherapy, but that it goes beyond that in the manipulation of forces. I completely agree with the former, and I guess for me the jury is still out on the latter. My eyes have started to glaze over lately whenever the word "Quantum" comes into the discussion, simply because it has been so abused and misunderstood. On one hand I desperately want to believe that we can affect things on a quantum level with our thoughts, etc., although coming up with any real and tangible proof of that has not happened yet that I am aware of. There is a huge amount of disagreement over this in the physics community and among Quantum Physicists. They have even coined the phrase "Quantum Quackery" to describe all of the kooky theories that are now being labelled "quantum". I guess you could consider me a reluctant sceptic. But I want to believe! :)

I haven't seen much on the Physics of Consciousness... I'll have to read up.

Permalink Reply by Simon Davies on February 18, 2009 at 5:47am

I think this touches upon the physics of consciousness a bit.

Dr. V.S. Ramachandran - Consciousness, Qualia, and Self

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jTWmTJALe1w

And this doesn't "prove" anything, but its interesting considering "the whole", whatever that may be, and the universe according to our current (scientific) understanding. Any change in any part of the pattern, no matter how "small", is reflected throughout the whole.

Mandelbrot Set Zoom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEw8xpb1aRA

And just for interest purposes, this is pretty good and brief in relation to "big" and "small", and I suppose what we humans consider to be "significant" and "insignificant".

IMAX Cosmic Voyage

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=5757507304603419799

But as a brief response to the original point, to some extent I really do think that everyone would benefit from certain information whether the "deeper" stuff be true or not, because whether its psychological or "real", the effects are made real by the individual applying it. I'd like to know for sure myself, but so far, just the change in attitude is enough to bring about the desired change in what is being experienced, albeit to do more with how I perceive internally what has not really changed externally. One may call it "self-help", but overall, especially since talking to "atheists" and trying (and failing miserably) to get some basic points across, I think taken out of a "magical" context the basic information can be applied by anyone and would indeed be of benefit, purely for the psychological aspect if nothing else.

In fact in relation to a bigger picture of things, it seems that some people are looking for a "workable philosophy" in terms of humanity as a whole "getting along" shall we say, and the answers are rather ancient, but they are scared off by a lot of the stuff because it deals with things that are not "proven by science" (they are "rational people" you see), so they simply can't see it from a basic psychological or beneficial point of view. But over all yes I think even if its nothing more than psychology it can help a great deal, and this is one aspect I'm interested in resolving myself.

On the other hand, perhaps such power or knowledge won't be "handed to me" until I am truly ready and responsible enough to handle it, and I am honest enough with myself to admit that currently I'm not ready :) Can I trust myself with knowledge and limitless power to affect the "external world" with my intentional thoughts? Not really, no... I think there is much work to be done before that day comes, if its coming. It seems that the limits are automatically applied by myself. Or in other words, I can only understand what I'm capable of understanding. In order to understand more the issue is mine to deal with - I must develop myself and advance personally in order to understand what remains the same.

Permalink Reply by BillVee on June 10, 2009 at 1:12pm

It seems that Freemasonry is basically a very old system of psychotherapy in this regard, although I have read Lon's book on Freemasonry and it's correlation to Magic. The connection between Freemasonry and magic isn't really normally made within the walls of FM, from what I understand. So, what is it that Freemasons are practicing if not psychotherapy or ancient self-improvement?

Permalink Reply by Vanese Va Voom on June 11, 2009 at 6:09pm

Indeed, I have heard Lon say that himself - and how greatly in molded his father into an exceptional man. My father and Grandfather were also both masons. I never did get to meet the latter but apparently he was also an exceptional man. My father was not "practicing" and was not do disciplined : )

Permalink Reply by BillVee on June 12, 2009 at 6:44am

I want to respond to this because although I am thoroughly aware that no "one man" speaks for FM, it's interesting to note that Masonic scholar W. Kirk Macnulty in his book "The Way of the Craftsman" states (when talking about the lodge as a model for the psyche) "In this sense we may think of the Craft as an antique, God-orientated, psychology - as a sort of science of human mental processes set out in a symbolic structure which may appear quaint by modern standards but which is consistent and valid when considered in it's own terms."

Macnulty is however very careful to distinguish the difference between this healthy form of psychology which helps to develop normal human behavior and "abnormal psychology" which is designed to help patients who have psychological problems.

Regardless, I don't want to quibble over semantics, especially because I am not a Freemason and do not want to speak for them either - but it appears from much material I have read that there is definitely a significant psychological component to FM. To say it's not psychological at all seems to be a pretty big generalization, and in some ways seems incorrect. It's not hard to recognize a psychological component to FM just by observing some of the rituals, which are obviously designed to have a deep psychological effect on the participants.

Your comment about FM not treating problems with therapy rings true, tho, and seems to refer to contemporary psychology and it's model of therapy to repair psychological problems in the individual. I'm quite sure that FM's don't lie around on couches in the lodge and work out each other's issues! ;)

Permalink Reply by Rurik Christiansen on July 17, 2011 at 4:59pm

First there is no "supernatural" unless you restrict the definition of natural.

 

If you restrict what is natural to what the current materialist metaphysics prescribe then most likely you will find "supernatural" phenomena.

 

Why I am saying this ?

 

Imagine for a moment that you live sometimes in early 1800's and somehow you see a flat screen TV showing you images and sounds from all over the world. Would that be supernatural to you ?

 

There is a somewhat implicit assumption among materialists that we have already discovered all essential "ingredients" of what makes "reality". To go back to the "living in the 1800's" analogy it would be not only that we don't know about electromagnetic waves and relativity and quantum mechanics etc. but we don't even accept that something fundamental about the nature of reality is still to be discovered.

 

Consider this:

 

"Radio waves were first predicted by mathematical work done in 1865 by James Clerk Maxwell. He noticed wavelike properties of light and similarities in electrical and magnetic observations." (from Wikipedia).

 

I.e. people knew about light but they couldn't quite explain it. Until the link with electromagnetic waves was made.

 

Now, do we have anything that may point to something not yet discovered ?

 

I would say yes.

 

It is the hard problem of consciousness.

 

We do not have any causal explanation for it. Not only that but we don't have any faintest idea about how to link the brain activity to the subjective experience of the mind.

 

Certainly we have plenty of correlation evidence that the mind is related to the brain ... but how ?

 

In order to better understand let me bring in an analogy.

 

Let assume that you have in front of you a TV set. You don't know how it works but you want to explore its inner workings.

 

You notice that when it is turned on there are views and sounds on the screen... people, animals, sounds, etc. You notice that when you turn it off there is nothing on the screen. You also notice that if you play with the buttons you can  make the images lighter or darker louder of quieter... and if you poke with a screwdriver in the TV itself you can make even weird unintelligible images and sounds.

 

In other words you have plenty of correlative evidence to link the TV to the images on the screen.

 

How about a causal explanation ?

 

Can you say that the little men and sounds and all the wonderful stuff you see on the screen is made and "lives" inside the TV ?

 

Now think about the mind and the brain. Think about the subjective experience and the hard problem of consciousness ...

 

If we poke with a screwdriver in a TV we may get some nice colours and sounds. If we take some substances we may have some interesting visions ;) ... Are they real ? Or not ? How would we know ?

 

[to be continued]

Permalink Reply by Jaefar S.A.B.N.W. on July 21, 2011 at 1:39pm

Modern psychology and psychiatry are the new alternatives to spirituality or religion.  The modern systems are based on the old information as well as the new.  Some paths, like Islam since the teaching of Al Qoor'aan, automatically adapt to the new found knowledge.  Actual metaphysics and similar matters, that most are not privy to, are not really discused in the modern professional organizations.  Those who are as a living book, with that or what remains from before, work from both the spiritual and the physiological perspectives.  Some groups like Eckankar, Scientology, and many others attempt to blend the theories and hypothosises into new systems with often a semblance of a comparative religion group.  Regardless, structured prayer and meditation proves more effective than any medication in any group of mental symptoms they look at.  However, like with music therapy, it is not just about what pleases you entertainment wise.  Yes, ritual prayer can easily be more personal than any random prayer.

Permalink Reply by Rurik Christiansen on July 25, 2011 at 8:05pm

Jaefar S.A.B.N.W. wrote:

"Modern psychology and psychiatry are the new alternatives to spirituality or religion."

Yes but to an extent. Very few psychological systems actually attempt to find or generate a "meaning of your life" (for lack of better words). Victor Frankl tried some with his Logo Therapy. Stanislav Grof created another with Transpersonal Psychology (I believe this one is more widely known and practised) and there are some other attempts at some sort of positive psychology.

And yet the meaning creation and giving man a "place in this world" is one of the fundamental roles taken by religion (other roles have been partially secularized e.g. morality => law, partial of course).

Also mainstream psychology does not accept non-materialistic approaches. As long as the hard problem of consciousness remains completely unsolvable I believe that the current materialism is incomplete and we are missing an important component of reality (like before the 19th century we did not know about electromagnetic waves and quantum mechanics).

As for what BillVee wrote:

"I am aware that when it comes to performing ceremonial magic that practitioners take great pride in following the rituals as described in the old texts"

I realised recently that Chaos Magick shows you the structure of magick while Ritual Magick shows you the beauty of Magick :)

I like them both :)

Take your pick :)