OK so SERIOUSLY - what is the deal with ABUNDANCE?

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Permalink Reply by Simon Davies on May 12, 2009 at 2:18am

Ideally, we (or I) need an island, free from ridiculous laws and the need for money. Or I suppose in other words that translates to needing to get away from the general population, who unconsciously/blindly support such laws and ways of life because they're happy with things as they are and to hell with everything else that doesn't affect them. So people are locked up every day through stupid laws, who cares, we're not interested in doing that so we don't need to do a damn thing to change it. I have my beer and my American Idol on TV, life is excellent. Let's all join in and laugh at those who want to do something different.

Er, but anyway, if we could completely seperate from "society" then its pretty simple. Not easy, but simple. All we really need is food which grows out of the ground, the universe will support us materialistically as long as we do the simple work in terms of looking after the garden. The difficulties arise when we want to interact, or do business with/in "society", who believe in ideas such as "money", and believe nothing could possibly function without it. If there was a place, such as a seperate island for example, where we didn't "need" money to interact with the other members, people could easily develop themselves, the community, technologies etc just through the common agreement of wanting to do so. Everything is readily available, there's just a made up obstacle getting in the way of the flow.

It could also work on a larger scale, but as long as people perceive no need to change anything, nothing is going to change. This is where the concept of "order out of chaos" comes into play, and I'm happy to allow the games to be played behind the scenes that are planned to lead to a "New World Order". I hope it all comes crashing down, because only then will the masses feel that something needs to be done. Its at that point a better solution needs to be introduced. If the masses can see how it would benefit them, then there's no reason why they won't become a part of it.

I might have simplified it a bit here, but that's basically how I see it. The main problem is doing that now, effectively having to go against the flow. I don't want to go against the flow, in fact I think its impossible to go against it. So the solution as I see it is to just create something new where the old nonsense doesn't apply. No one can do it alone within the existing system, and I don't really want to go and live in the forest by myself. Well, not for too long anyway ;) I like technology and all that stuff, its just the foundation that's not designed to accomodate the individual. So I think its a matter of like-minded people coming together and creating something new outside and beyond what already exists, based on a different set of agreements. The problem of doing that now as I see it is the space to do it and the people to make it work. I have one friend who thinks along a similar but slightly different way, and I know of no one else, in my local area at least. I'm surrounded by fields and forests, but they are "owned" by farmers. So how to get it started now, with me being me in the middle of some rigid way of thinking and living, in the extreme minority, I don't know.

But for the moment I need to use some of the offerings of this system to gather the materials and tools that will be needed, information and what not. So I suspect its not time yet. I am "getting by", fortunately I live with my parents, I don't have a job which allows me the time, and the government has paid for all the materials I've acquired so far (heh), yet I am expected and pressured to fall into line, which I have no intention of doing to be honest. At the moment I really don't know what to do to change the situation, except to continue to learn and look out for the opportunity.

I suppose that doesn't really answer the question, but it seems that something that is below us ("the system") is blocking the flow of abundance, and we need to rid ourselves of it, seperate from it, but still somehow get the benefits that it offers in the meantime to increase the potential success of what can replace it.

Then again, its not "the system" that's blocking the flow, its the desire to remain a part of it. But unless amazon.co.uk is willing to accept some vegetables or something as payment, then I see no way to gather the materials for the future. In the words of Blackadder: We are in a sticky situation. We are in the stickiest situation since Sticky the stick insect got stuck on a sticky bun.

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Permalink Reply by Vanese Va Voom on May 12, 2009 at 2:34am

LOL!!!!!! Love Black Adder -
It is funny - today at lunch Chance was watching a show about the 14th Century - people had to get up at 2AM to just get the laundry done - Oh My!!!!!! It was an extreme vision of something I have been playing with since I have been in Australia. While I have electricity and internet ( dial up ARGGG) I am still how harkening to a simpler time just be being here - and it IS lovely...

I guess my ideal is the fictional Star Trek type society where there is not money and everyone "materializes" everything they need - or want - but why does that have to be fictional?

I am reading the Secret History of the Human Race, in which the author makes a distinction between Mind over Matter and Mind BEFORE Matter. He says the correct way of looking at it is mind first, matter second - IF this is true should we not be able to MIND all the money we need - society aside?

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Permalink Reply by Simon Davies on May 12, 2009 at 5:28am

Hehe, how is Chance anyway? I haven't seen him around here for a while.

I've "jokingly" contemplated the idea of using cannabis as a form of money, I don't really know why, except its something "valuable" that people can grow themselves and doesn't take too long from seed to harvesting, the hemp can be used to make materials, the hemp seed oil can be used etc, so overall its a pretty valuable or USABLE plant that doesn't take too much effort to grow with little waste materials etc. I suppose it can be a form of money that doesn't just gather as a pile of paper or numbers on a screen, and the thing itself can benefit the people and the planet directly. "Money doesn't grow on trees" indeed. Actually, it does, there's just some idiot law that claims you're not allowed to grow it ;) To protect you from yourself no doubt.

But to go beyond using physical objects altogether, I would happily do that. The physical object represents a thought value, so as Ian Lungold says, in reality we're just trading thought or appreciation. Me handing over a physical object means nothing in reality, because we're both just acknowledging some agreed value, and if we are both aware that its a made up value that we both agree on, then why do we need to bother with the hassle of using the physical object.

Money has evolved from cows and pigs into gold and silver, and from heavy gold and silver into compact pieces of paper, and now into numbers on a screen accessible through a plastic card. In effect, as I see it, money has both evolved and devolved at the same time, but its done it in a way that allows us the opportunity to take it a step further and transcend the whole concept as we know it.

If we were using cows or something maybe it would be different, because then I would be without a cow, and I can eat a cow or get milk, I would have less milk if I gave it up so I would then consider the cow more valuable to me. But seeing as money has evolved into pieces of paper and numbers on a screen, then there's no reason why it shouldn't evolve beyond the physical altogether. I already have no use for the paper and the numbers on the screen, so to be without it makes no difference to me. It evolved from cows and pigs into numbers on a screen for the convenience of not having to carry cows and pigs around, but now we are in a similar situation once again. The paper and numbers are no longer convenient. So while the idea of physical money has evolved, it has also "devolved" to the stage where it doesn't mean anything except what we think it means, it doesn't have any practical use whatsoever. Its gone backwards in some sense, where we don't even use edible cows any more, but its gone forwards in the sense that we can realise we don't actually need to do it that way after all.

So we are already "minding" all the money we need, but we are also minding the money we don't have but think we need, through choosing to associate money with the finite matter rather than the infinite thought... As far as the physical is concerned in this case, they are two sides of the same coin. We will never seperate them, abundance from poverty. "The war against poverty" is lost the moment the battle is begun. We will have to create a different coin altogether.

To take the step and do away with the physical representation will simply remove the possibility of being without it, and I'm all for that. I don't see why all humans everywhere wouldn't think its a good idea (except for the rich and the powerful through being rich), and there's no real reason why it wouldn't work as far as I can see. It doesn't have to be fictional if we agree to do it.

To bring society back into it briefly so I can tie up what has ended up huger than I planned, we choose to need something we don't have, so we choose to make ourselves poor, and this is what I find particularly amusing in recent times given the "financial problems" that we're all apparently supposed to be worried about. We don't need it in reality, yet its as if people want to continue to need it as if they want to be poor. I just wonder how long it will take for enough people to figure that one out so we can do something about it. Hopefully it will be the news presenters that will get irritated and realise first and have some sort of an outburst live on air, but I suppose that really would be living in a dream world. I suspect their bank accounts will remain nicely topped up :D

But I'll have to go and do a little more dreaming now anyway and go to bed, its 12:25PM lol. And I'm writing books worth of thoughts here so if I don't go now I'll be doing it all day. Good night ;)

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