More UNITED than we realize!
Ego death...
There is a lot of talk about ego death in esoteric traditions and also in current popular works. Am still working to grok the concept, as it seems there are different interpretations of what that means:
The spiritualist idea seems to be that with the dissolution of ego, I now can "go home" into some happy place beyond physicality. This in a way denies the physical existence on this planet as something to be enjoyed, as it apparently only appears to be a vehicle to burn karma and transcend. Sort of an earthschool that we must go through and to deny your identity apparently lets you move to higher levels.
Secondly, there appears to be the conflict of "I" vs "Other". My yoga teacher always said to me, when people start speaking about "Oneness", hold on to your wallet and your girlfriend. While we seem to finally get that there is an underlying unity to all life, each of our perceptions are separate. One might go so far as to require this separation, this original "sin", as a requirement for experience, as without it, the entangled hierarchy that turns wave into particle would not exist. In this case, ego death might mean that we begin to grok the paradox if "I" and "Other" as separate and yet as one. In this case, it would mean giving up egotistical behavior for healthy selfish individuality with an understanding of living in community.
Thirdly, there also appears to be a perspective that ego death is simply to stop identifying with the mental body "only". In our current state of humanity, we seem to define ourselves as "I think therefore I am". It would seem that ego death in this context means dissolving from thought as a primary identity reference, but instead step in the realm, where we identify with spirit, and have body, emotion, thought and energy available as four separate ways of engaging with reality around us, engaging all of them consciously, joyously, and as appropriate - the mental body seems a great tool for solving math problems.
Thoughts??
The spiritualist idea seems to be that with the dissolution of ego, I now can "go home" into some happy place beyond physicality. This in a way denies the physical existence on this planet as something to be enjoyed, as it apparently only appears to be a vehicle to burn karma and transcend. Sort of an earthschool that we must go through and to deny your identity apparently lets you move to higher levels.
Secondly, there appears to be the conflict of "I" vs "Other". My yoga teacher always said to me, when people start speaking about "Oneness", hold on to your wallet and your girlfriend. While we seem to finally get that there is an underlying unity to all life, each of our perceptions are separate. One might go so far as to require this separation, this original "sin", as a requirement for experience, as without it, the entangled hierarchy that turns wave into particle would not exist. In this case, ego death might mean that we begin to grok the paradox if "I" and "Other" as separate and yet as one. In this case, it would mean giving up egotistical behavior for healthy selfish individuality with an understanding of living in community.
Thirdly, there also appears to be a perspective that ego death is simply to stop identifying with the mental body "only". In our current state of humanity, we seem to define ourselves as "I think therefore I am". It would seem that ego death in this context means dissolving from thought as a primary identity reference, but instead step in the realm, where we identify with spirit, and have body, emotion, thought and energy available as four separate ways of engaging with reality around us, engaging all of them consciously, joyously, and as appropriate - the mental body seems a great tool for solving math problems.
Thoughts??
Tags: body, circuit, death, ego, emotional, energetic, mental, philip, physical, spiritual
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by joymonk on -
to know what you want to live for, you have to know what you are willing to die for...
Thank you for the Bruce Lee video... Good one!
Alex Storino said:
I think that ego death is best explained by Bruce Lee at approximately 1:30 in this linked youtube video. It's the art of dying. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlnInq_lB4Q
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Permalink Reply by Vanese Va Voom on -
Yes! If only I knew that that was in the cosmic sense. I would die for my beloved. I would die for my friends and family. I have grown so unattached to the flux of things, that to die for a cause seems unnecessary. That fight, a hologram of me who is more passionate will take on. The only thing that inspires me now is love laughter and music.
joymonk said:to know what you want to live for, you have to know what you are willing to die for...
Thank you for the Bruce Lee video... Good one!
Alex Storino said:
I think that ego death is best explained by Bruce Lee at approximately 1:30 in this linked youtube video. It's the art of dying. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlnInq_lB4Q
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Permalink Reply by Timm on -
I like to think of ego death as the realization that the ego is afraid to die. Some practices which bind the mind to a state of nothingness, oneness, egolessness, etc., are devolved versions of a proper realization, and represent nothing more than a repression of ego. The example of holding on to your wallet and your girlfriend is apropos of these kinds of practices that give you a taste of realization by teaching this repression of ego. This is not ego-death.
Ego-Death is better thought of in my opinion as a transparency of ego, and a gradual undoing of the knot of personality. Once some sort of transcendent contact is made, the process itself is a guarantee based on evolution ... spiritual practice is about shortening the amount of time the process takes.
The ego does not die until its host body dies. The ego is a thing of Nature which transcends the physical body, while being completely tied to the body. the body is fundamental to the ego's existence. What must occur then, is an embrace of an order of consciousness transcendent to ego, or, transcendent to mind. This is embrace then negates the ego ... but that doesn't mean the ego has gone anywhere.
In fact in most cases, the ego keeps right on spinning out its karma. It is a thing of Nature and Karma is a consequence of Nature. The transcendent contact simply negates the dualistic struggle of the ego, renders it a "non-issue" ... but the ego's struggle CONTINUES in duality.
If your a spiritual panzy, it is at this point you begin sitting unmovable and never going out and getting laid ever again. You become a sage, they write books about you, and being in your presence will enlighten people ... but you never ever get laid again .... booooring.
In fact, the ego's karma is an integral expression of the transcendent experiencing itself in all possible probabilities. To "return to the market" as a Bodhisattva, or to continue "The Great Work" as a Magician, is exactly this realization.
The work of ego-death is the work of playing out your ego's possibilities as Art from a transcendent realization, and manifesting this transcendent realization through the expression. i.e. This is the Tantric View.
$.02
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Permalink Reply by joymonk on
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beautifully said. thank you! Like "is the work of playing out your ego's possibilities as Art from a transcendent realization, and manifesting this transcendent realization through the expression." Been saying that life is about maximizing your experience of and effect on your perceived reality...
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Permalink Reply by William John Meegan on -
Joymonk:
I do not believe that the ego can be completely wiped away or one would revert to the blank mind of a new born babe. In fact Jungians believe that the ego develops in the womb before physical birth.
Ego is the conscious mind: how can one deny the knowledge of who he is or the experiences he or she has had? These are the elements that make up the character and personality of the individual.
If one could repress any part of the ego it would have be repressed into the Shadow: dark side of the psyche. Anything that is hidden must come back up. One can not just retrieve what he or she has repressed at will. If one was to repress memory of the ego into the Shadow how would the individual know what he is trying to retrieve? Remember he had to repress it: forget all about it.
I do know that through the Transcendent Function: a dialogue of the conscious mind with the unconscious mind the divine aspects of the psyche can elimate parts of the ego: such as an addictive habit. This would open up an empty space in the psyche to be filled in by other activities.
However, to attempt to eliminate the ego altogether is a fruitless quest seeing that experiences of the world are neccessary as a ladder towards knowledge of the infinite.repress
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Permalink Reply by Cosmic Claire on -
@ WJM roughly speaking this is a similar sort of view that I take myself, give or take the odd word.
I'm inclined to believe that those who wish to remove all identity and disappear into some cloud of nonexistence are kind of missing the point of why we all came here into incarnation in the first place. I mean, why go to all the trouble of creating a universe of manifested form, incarnate in a series of bodies or other material identities if such a thing is 'bad' and we are all supposed to be getting the hell out of here as fast as possible! LOL Anyway isn't a lot of Buddhist teaching about getting away from too many judgements about 'bad'? Although that sort of opens up a whole new can of worms, so maybe we shouldn't go there right now! hahaha
If identity was an evil that we should flee from then where did it come from in the first place? Is there like a demiurge which works against divine goodness? Is divine goodness just non existence? Could non existence be possible? Wouldn't it ontologically require existence for it to be a possibility? Isn't some of this just a load of twaddle which people get caught up in?
Gahte, gahte, paragahte, parasamgahte as the Tibetans say. Which roughly translated means something like, if you think you can escape from existence then you are trapped in illusion, accept it as it is and you will be enlightened. Sounds okay to me :-)
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Permalink Reply by joymonk on
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Thank you for your insights. Good stuff to ponder. Am prone to belief it makes sense not to identify with the bio-robot we are driving around, but with the driver that utilizes this bio-robot to have a material earth experience...
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Permalink Reply by joymonk on
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She sure is ;-) Like to think of karma as propensities. We all have certain probabilities to contend with, which in each moment either let us act as an unconscious bio-robot if we just follow them, or allow us the opportunity for free will, which includes acting consciously and hence consciously affecting said probabilities...
Martin said:Exactly Joymonk! We are the driver of an auto, lent to us by Planet Earth. Not only the physical machine She made for us, also the software in the boardcomputer ( our minds ). She made this stuff for us, for we asked her, and Earth is a very friendly Planet, She always gives what we ask...but if we do not respect Her, and see the machinery She made for us as ours, then She gives us Karma...This is how I developed the saying tit for that into : You give what you get and you get what you give, so She gives us a vehicle to experience and the joy of our story She records in Akasha for Her to read back in Her Dreamland...lovely Planet isn't She...I do feel so...
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Permalink Reply by Jaefar S.A.B.N.W. on -
The idea of people getting rid of their ego in new age traditions, likely comes from a misunderstanding of the five words for false ego in Saamskrita. The goal is not to become schizophrenic and draw our attention away from ourselves (Al Qooraan 2.44). The peak of universal consciousness and individual consciousness are not things that require a separation from each other (See Al Qooraan 53.1-18). Psalm 148.14 speaks of Allah being closer to the Children of the Upright of God than their own hearts. Their hearts have their own existence and so does YHWH. They were as Eckankar terminology says, "coworkers with God." In my own experiences, I speak of the states of YADNAMAD (undefiled knowledge [Enochian) and Absolute Righteousness. This I think is the goal. We are always separate from God. We can be like a moth against the glass lamp shade beating itself silly or we can realize what it means to say that God is omnipresent and closer to us than our jugular vein (See Al Qoor'aan 50.16). We will understand the Fool card of the Tarot. We will know the creation conceals and reveals God. We will know God operates within and without creation. We will want to attain the states that bring us closer to him. This will lead to dissolving away these false egos and the 70,000 veils of ignorance that this age's Islamic tradition speaks of.
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