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Ego death...
There is a lot of talk about ego death in esoteric traditions and also in current popular works. Am still working to grok the concept, as it seems there are different interpretations of what that means:
The spiritualist idea seems to be that with the dissolution of ego, I now can "go home" into some happy place beyond physicality. This in a way denies the physical existence on this planet as something to be enjoyed, as it apparently only appears to be a vehicle to burn karma and transcend. Sort of an earthschool that we must go through and to deny your identity apparently lets you move to higher levels.
Secondly, there appears to be the conflict of "I" vs "Other". My yoga teacher always said to me, when people start speaking about "Oneness", hold on to your wallet and your girlfriend. While we seem to finally get that there is an underlying unity to all life, each of our perceptions are separate. One might go so far as to require this separation, this original "sin", as a requirement for experience, as without it, the entangled hierarchy that turns wave into particle would not exist. In this case, ego death might mean that we begin to grok the paradox if "I" and "Other" as separate and yet as one. In this case, it would mean giving up egotistical behavior for healthy selfish individuality with an understanding of living in community.
Thirdly, there also appears to be a perspective that ego death is simply to stop identifying with the mental body "only". In our current state of humanity, we seem to define ourselves as "I think therefore I am". It would seem that ego death in this context means dissolving from thought as a primary identity reference, but instead step in the realm, where we identify with spirit, and have body, emotion, thought and energy available as four separate ways of engaging with reality around us, engaging all of them consciously, joyously, and as appropriate - the mental body seems a great tool for solving math problems.
Thoughts??
The spiritualist idea seems to be that with the dissolution of ego, I now can "go home" into some happy place beyond physicality. This in a way denies the physical existence on this planet as something to be enjoyed, as it apparently only appears to be a vehicle to burn karma and transcend. Sort of an earthschool that we must go through and to deny your identity apparently lets you move to higher levels.
Secondly, there appears to be the conflict of "I" vs "Other". My yoga teacher always said to me, when people start speaking about "Oneness", hold on to your wallet and your girlfriend. While we seem to finally get that there is an underlying unity to all life, each of our perceptions are separate. One might go so far as to require this separation, this original "sin", as a requirement for experience, as without it, the entangled hierarchy that turns wave into particle would not exist. In this case, ego death might mean that we begin to grok the paradox if "I" and "Other" as separate and yet as one. In this case, it would mean giving up egotistical behavior for healthy selfish individuality with an understanding of living in community.
Thirdly, there also appears to be a perspective that ego death is simply to stop identifying with the mental body "only". In our current state of humanity, we seem to define ourselves as "I think therefore I am". It would seem that ego death in this context means dissolving from thought as a primary identity reference, but instead step in the realm, where we identify with spirit, and have body, emotion, thought and energy available as four separate ways of engaging with reality around us, engaging all of them consciously, joyously, and as appropriate - the mental body seems a great tool for solving math problems.
Thoughts??
Tags: body, circuit, death, ego, emotional, energetic, mental, philip, physical, spiritual
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Vanese Va Voom on -
Oh man I LOVE this
I have been so confused by this
In fact I have been having a discussion offline with Frater about what ego "death" even really means, and the necessity for it....
This is really poignant for me because I have been looking back on my own journey and trying to determine the important elements in my development.
I certainly see ego refinement as part of it, death I am not so sure...
My ego refinement I mean I am SO MUCH LESS REACTIVE!!!!!!
I am free to observe and consciously respond - much more of the time anyway : )
I LOVE YOU my Joymonk : )
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Permalink Reply by Lara Compton on -
I have written two things about ego death which you might find interesting. I shall read your piece when my mind is alert, tomorrow morning :)
1. http://larakatrina2008.blogspot.com/2008/09/ego-death-return-to-sel...
2. "if you subscribe to the 'ego' in another; you are no better than its slave in yourself". Lara Compton
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Permalink Reply by Vanese Va Voom on
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Yeah Lara
I will : )
May we post there here too?
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Permalink Reply by joymonk on -
Lovely piece... Thank you for sharing... If I understand your post correctly, it points to something akin to the second point: an understanding that the separation of I and other and all the suffering that comes with it, is indeed an illusion, and when ego death occurs, we simply get to exist and allow what is occurring around us without any perceived needs or urge to control our environment.
Did I get that right? ;-)
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Permalink Reply by Melissa on -
I resonate with the final perspective here. If we can get past the body as machine, with 'ego death' being one way to do it, we can see the Bigger Picture.
It is a terrifying feeling to me, and I haven't been able to achieve it, though I've tried through various shamanic techniques.
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Permalink Reply by joymonk on
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Michael,
thank you for clarifying this.... When I wrote "spiritualist", I meant "spiritualistic" as opposed to materialistic, and was lumping in all religious movements that are teleological in nature, i.e. aimed at ending material life and move on to a spiritual world, whether "heaven", "nirvana" or any other place that is leaving behind the materialistic world (as opposed to integrating spiritual and material).
So, glad you brought forth that clarification. Did not mean to address any specific order ;-)
smiles
philip
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Permalink Reply by Tony Hogan on -
Ego death. Interesting. I don't go much on that idea at all. Here's how I see it.
God, the Big Buddha etc is constantly present in all things. In order for God to experience Love, God became many (old story, no new twist).
For the journey from unknowing to knowing, a mental vehicle is required. The mental vehicle sort of takes over, but it is an intentional part of the Knowing process, it requires something to reflect on.
The God thing is the space, the void, the underlying consciousness that sits beneath the network of thought. The network of thought is called the mind, the mind thinks that it is the center of all things and that all things are under its jurisdiction and that it has the ability to know and understand everything. It is just a false sense of identification and really it is just thought, no big deal, nothing more.
The mind naturally falls away the deeper we go into ourselves, this is what you might call ego death. No big fuss really; the whole concept is just a whole lot of Spiritual garbage which has grown out of communities that have no idea about it at all.
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Permalink Reply by William John Meegan on -
Michael:
I tend to agree with your assessment of the physical realm: we need it as a foundation to climb up the ladder to higher spiritual realms of awareness.
I think of Joseph Campbell's vedios where he talks about the Western seeker seeking an Eastern Guru. The Westerner says to the Guru "I want to loose my ego" and the Guru is use to dealing with Easterer's egos that are as fragile as eggshells and so takes his little hammer [techniques] and taps the ego and it is shattered. Campbell tells us that there are Westerners after 40-years still having the Guru bringing his hammer down on their stone like egos.
I think that is the great difference between the Western and the Eastern mind. The two can not converge or mingle into the others traditions, unless of course you are born into that particular mindset.
For example if I was to seek a reduction of my ego would I have the determination to research the esoteric science. Would I feel that it was even necessary to do so? Would the lost of ego bring about the lost of creative energy?
On the other hand I can see taking a back seat to the lime light as a way of reducing the world's attention on one's own person. In this way one does not get inflated or self-inportant with this hermit or monastic like attitude.
Yet, at the same time one has an obligation to not hide his talents as the New Testament teaches.. This is why the internet is so wonderful. It allows people to discuss their researches in a sort of anonymous fashion: not having to do it face to face.
Michael R Jensen ND said:I am a "spiritualist" in fact ordained, I have no knowledge of your assertion that "The spiritualist idea seems to be that with the dissolution of ego, I now can "go home" into some happy place beyond physicality. This in a way denies the physical existence on this planet as something to be enjoyed, as it apparently only appears to be a vehicle to burn karma and transcend." In fact this sounds very like the Gnostics to me. Spiritualism does not deny the beauty of physical existance, in fact it is celebrated as a wonderful opportunity to understand the function and structure of the physical plane, so that as we (spiritualists) rise up through the planes life after life, we eventually become "as gods" being able to control the formative forces that actually create the "physical plane" In other words it is the aim of the spiritualist to become a God or Goddess ( in many thousand years time)
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Permalink Reply by Cosmic Claire on -
Tony, I like your way of putting it.
It can all get so tied up in portentous terminology. Surely what we are seeking is some kind of 'selfless' state, but that does not mean we should lose a sense of our own bodily identity or indeed of its past history and accomplishments. A 'selfless' state to my mind is one which is balanced to an understanding of what is best, both for itself but also that as a part of what is best for the whole, no separated interests, respecting others as oneself.
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Permalink Reply by Soulara BoneWoman on
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What follows is my personal experience. Take it for what you wish, do with it as you Will.
Much like anything...experiencing "ego death" is just that--an experience. The ego dies to get there...but it doesn't die truly...it is transcended. The first thing to understand about these experiences is that all paradoxes are completely true in this space. LOL
In that time period of transcendence.... a great Mystery...one that you may have already suspected...or heard about second hand...but now it is known first hand. It is so childishly simple in it's intense complexity. It is the Great Dichotomy.
A Divine Spark...timeless..and ageless...will show in an instant. It will reveal you to be a Kaliedoscope illuminated and created by the Divine Spark that holds within it all things and feels like purest form of all things, it feels like pure Love. It desires above all else...to experience..and thereby it creates. It feels like the seed of all emotion in it's purest form...which meld into Love. It is almost impossible to describe. I could go on for pages...and it would probably all sound like empty clanging words...until you experience it.
You will understand that whoever you think you are...(insert name)....will eventually die...completely. This Divine Spark, or Consciousness, has a main purpose...to use your material body as a vehicle to experience itself. It does so with what I guess you could call love and compassion...but it does so nonetheless. You are not relevant in the grand scheme of all things. You will die. Your ego dies when your material body dies. The loves, thoughts, hopes, dreams, worries, cares, concepts, all of this dies...only the Spark is eternal.
Then guess what happens after this enlightenment? You go back to your life...chop wood...and carry water. You will still have your ego. You will be forever altered....but you are still you. You will begin to approach life differntly with this new understanding. You are free in ways others are not. Your ego self, (insert your name) may feel anger...or resentment...or feel used...that you are not more important in the grand scheme of things. There is a period of adjustment. A period of what feels like a struggle between the Divine Spark and the ego (your old self) for control. I was really, really angry for a while. It is really just the ego refusing to surrender or being stubborn about letting the transcendence happen in a fuller way. You will learn this integration in time. Like Anais Nin said..."I stopped loving my father a long time ago, what remains is simply a bad habit." This is how enlightement and the ego are together.
You are now capable of transcending the ego whenever you wish. You are in choice about your state of awareness.
Unless you are living in a monastery where food is brought to you and you are free to contemplate your navel all day...you will need an ego to exist in our modern society.
The word regarding the ego is.... transcendence at will.
Oh, and BTW...life will not be perfect here everafter...you will not have automatic special powers and abilities (these must be developed if you want them...like anything else)....you can still experience suffering, it's more of a choice....contrary to what many try to sell. It's just that you understand that this is all an experience and you are able to transcend it...or..to experience it fully with awareness. ;)
Well, this is my experience anyway. Perhaps yours will be uniquely different. Just know that concept of "ego death" as it is generally used...is not necessary to attain enlightenment.
Perhaps if gurus would stop trying to be so damn mystical, special, and necessary they could actually help people attain. LOL LOL LOL
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Permalink Reply by Alekz Storeenoe on -
I think that ego death is best explained by Bruce Lee at approximately 1:30 in this linked youtube video. It's the art of dying. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlnInq_lB4Q
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Permalink Reply by Cosmic Claire on
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You are a cosmic being!
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